Great 'service' from Ryanair - NOT!!!

[CJB]

From Ayrshire Post website:

http://www.ayrshirepost.net/ayrshire-news/local-news-ayrshire/ayr-news/2010/01/01/ayrshire-pensioner-88-suffers-stroke-after-nightmare-odreal-with-ryanair-102545-25494780/

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yfxjokb

Ayrshire pensioner (88) suffers stroke after nightmare ordeal with
Ryanair

Jan 1 2010 by Lisa Boyle, Ayrshire Post (main ed)

AN 88-year-old man had a stroke after he was abandoned by an airline
more than 70 miles from his destination.

Frail John Lynskey was left dazed and confused when his Prestwick
bound flight was diverted to Edinburgh because of bad weather.

But rather than ensure the pensioner was cared for in the sub-zero
temperatures, he was simply told to get a bus, which dropped him off
in the middle of nowhere.

The shocking catalogue of events unfolded when John decided to spend
Christmas with his daughter in Coylton.

He was due to arrive at Prestwick at 6.50pm, on December 23 on the
Ryanair flight from Shannon.

His daughter Patricia Christie and grand-daughter Nicola were eagerly
awaiting his arrival when they heard that the flight had been
diverted.

Son-in-law Kenny said: “The next couple of hours were a blank for
them. They presumed that the passengers would be brought by bus to
Prestwick but John never showed up.

“Meanwhile I was phoning the airport and trying to phone Ryanair but
nobody was able to confirm what was happening. It was a nightmare.

“John doesn’t have a mobile and he didn’t have anyone’s mobile
numbers
on him so there was no way of him contacting us.”

Unable to contact him, John’s frantic family had to call in police
who
filed him as a missing person.

Meanwhile, John had been advised to get a bus to the city centre and
then to Prestwick.

But the city bus he caught dropped him at a remote location and he
stood with his heavy suitcase in dark sub-zero conditions for over an
hour before he was able to catch another bus back to the airport.

Kenny continued: “By 11pm we were in absolute panic mode. I phoned
Strathclyde police, who phoned their colleagues in Lothian and
Borders.

“By 1am, they found John sitting alone in the airport totally
helpless. He didn’t know what was happening.”

Savvy officers put John in a taxi to Coylton– at a cost of £167.

And when Patricia and Nicola arrived home at 3am they found a cold,
hungry and scared John waiting in the porch – more than seven hours
after he was due to arrive.

But the family nightmare wasn’t over.

Patricia explained: “I was so relieved to get dad inside. We got him
a
cup of tea and something to eat then went to bed.

“The next day I was rushing around making breakfast and noticed that
my dad was spilling his food all down his front. Then I realised the
left side of his face was drooped.

“I just rushed into the hospital with him and doctors said he’d had a
stroke brought on by the stress and cold.”

John, from Galway, is now recovering at Patricia’s home. He was
released from hospital late on Christmas day.

John said: “I’ve never been through anything like that in my life
before.

“We still don’t know if Ryanair ever put on a bus for passengers to
get to Prestwick.

“I’ve travelled here plenty of times on that flight and nothing like
that has ever happened.

“I dread to think what could have happened to me.

“It ruined our Christmas.”

But Ryanair had no sympathy with John’s plight.

A spokesman said: “Ryanair flights were diverted due to the weather.
Passengers were fully advised of onward connections.”

At least when someone has a bad experience on the railway there's
usually some vestige of sympathy expressed regardless of whether the
TOC was or wasn't at fault. It's such a curt response that I can't
help wondering whether the newspaper reproduced a small piece of a
more fulsome response or didn't give the full story to the spokesman
in order to better fit the "Ryanair had no sympathy" assertion. There
again given Ryanair's reputation for abrasiveness perhaps not.

[Buddenbrooks]

"CJB" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e99cb32f-0041-4100-b834-***@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
From Ayrshire Post website:

http://www.ayrshirepost.net/ayrshire-news/local-news-ayrshire/ayr-news/2010/01/01/ayrshire-pensioner-88-suffers-stroke-after-nightmare-odreal-with-ryanair-102545-25494780/

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yfxjokb

Ayrshire pensioner (88) suffers stroke after nightmare ordeal with
Ryanair

---------------

It is very sad and I hope the stroke was not too severe and he will recover.

I would not use Ryan Air for essential travel or with people of limited self
reliance. Ryan Air does not claim to be a full service airline and it seems
it did what
I would expect. Many of its staff are not native English speakers and you
cannot depend on any of the aircrew having local knowledge of the airport
they
have landed at.

The gentleman clearly was unable to negotiate an unknown bus system, he
looks quite fit for an 88 year old man, but such a trip is not trivial at
that age.
Mobile phones are cheap and I cannot imagine anyone travelling like this not
owning one or borrowing one.

Edinburgh Airport has warm facilities and he could have waited there until
his relatives discovered that the flight had been diverted. I am not sure
the police did as much as I would have hoped, but they may have been over
whelmed and calling a Taxi was the simplest solution from their perspective,
although it sounds that the airport medical staff should have looked at him
first.

[Roland Perry]

In message

Post by CJB
Meanwhile, John had been advised to get a bus to the city centre and
then to Prestwick.
But the city bus he caught dropped him at a remote location and he
stood with his heavy suitcase in dark sub-zero conditions for over an
hour before he was able to catch another bus back to the airport.

It seems to me that this bus driver should have just as much blame.

Presumably John got on the "wrong" bus, or at the very least got off the
"right" bus at the "wrong place". Why did the bus driver abandon him,
wherever it was?

[pete]

Post by Roland Perry
In message

Post by CJB
Meanwhile, John had been advised to get a bus to the city centre and
then to Prestwick.
But the city bus he caught dropped him at a remote location and he
stood with his heavy suitcase in dark sub-zero conditions for over an
hour before he was able to catch another bus back to the airport.

It seems to me that this bus driver should have just as much blame.
Presumably John got on the "wrong" bus, or at the very least got off the
"right" bus at the "wrong place". Why did the bus driver abandon him,
wherever it was?

I'm glad someone else thinks that, too. As I read the story it became
apparent that (while certainly not blameless) this was turning into
another "let's bash Ryanair for everything that goes wrong" piece.
ISTM the family didn't exactly help the preparation: having an 88 y.o.
flying alone, without any means of contacting them, either.

Q: do Ryanair actually have any ground staff at airports, or is it just
contracted out to someone like Servisair?

[Roland Perry]

Post by pete
As I read the story it became
apparent that (while certainly not blameless) this was turning into
another "let's bash Ryanair for everything that goes wrong" piece.
ISTM the family didn't exactly help the preparation: having an 88 y.o.
flying alone, without any means of contacting them, either.

And they should have access to information that would have told them the
flight was diverted. So they could take some action too.

Post by pete
Q: do Ryanair actually have any ground staff at airports, or is it just
contracted out to someone like Servisair?

Staffing is almost always contracted out, but is it "all". Maybe they
have at least a few supervisors on the payroll (in addition to the
flight crew).

Contracting out handling staff makes sense at airports with just a few
flights a day - the staff switch from handling one airline to another as
the day draws on. But even at big places like Stansted it's contracted
out (remember the finger-pointing when they had very big queues one
Saturday in the Autumn because the contractors has a staffing issue).

[Jeff Hacker]

"CJB" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e99cb32f-0041-4100-b834-***@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
From Ayrshire Post website:

http://www.ayrshirepost.net/ayrshire-news/local-news-ayrshire/ayr-news/2010/01/01/ayrshire-pensioner-88-suffers-stroke-after-nightmare-odreal-with-ryanair-102545-25494780/

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yfxjokb

Ayrshire pensioner (88) suffers stroke after nightmare ordeal with
Ryanair

Jan 1 2010 by Lisa Boyle, Ayrshire Post (main ed)

AN 88-year-old man had a stroke after he was abandoned by an airline
more than 70 miles from his destination.

Frail John Lynskey was left dazed and confused when his Prestwick
bound flight was diverted to Edinburgh because of bad weather.

But rather than ensure the pensioner was cared for in the sub-zero
temperatures, he was simply told to get a bus, which dropped him off
in the middle of nowhere.

The shocking catalogue of events unfolded when John decided to spend
Christmas with his daughter in Coylton.

He was due to arrive at Prestwick at 6.50pm, on December 23 on the
Ryanair flight from Shannon.

His daughter Patricia Christie and grand-daughter Nicola were eagerly
awaiting his arrival when they heard that the flight had been
diverted.

Son-in-law Kenny said: “The next couple of hours were a blank for
them. They presumed that the passengers would be brought by bus to
Prestwick but John never showed up.

“Meanwhile I was phoning the airport and trying to phone Ryanair but
nobody was able to confirm what was happening. It was a nightmare.

“John doesn’t have a mobile and he didn’t have anyone’s mobile
numbers
on him so there was no way of him contacting us.”

Unable to contact him, John’s frantic family had to call in police
who
filed him as a missing person.

Meanwhile, John had been advised to get a bus to the city centre and
then to Prestwick.

But the city bus he caught dropped him at a remote location and he
stood with his heavy suitcase in dark sub-zero conditions for over an
hour before he was able to catch another bus back to the airport.

Kenny continued: “By 11pm we were in absolute panic mode. I phoned
Strathclyde police, who phoned their colleagues in Lothian and
Borders.

“By 1am, they found John sitting alone in the airport totally
helpless. He didn’t know what was happening.”

Savvy officers put John in a taxi to Coylton– at a cost of £167.

And when Patricia and Nicola arrived home at 3am they found a cold,
hungry and scared John waiting in the porch – more than seven hours
after he was due to arrive.

But the family nightmare wasn’t over.

Patricia explained: “I was so relieved to get dad inside. We got him
a
cup of tea and something to eat then went to bed.

“The next day I was rushing around making breakfast and noticed that
my dad was spilling his food all down his front. Then I realised the
left side of his face was drooped.

“I just rushed into the hospital with him and doctors said he’d had a
stroke brought on by the stress and cold.”

John, from Galway, is now recovering at Patricia’s home. He was
released from hospital late on Christmas day.

John said: “I’ve never been through anything like that in my life
before.

“We still don’t know if Ryanair ever put on a bus for passengers to
get to Prestwick.

“I’ve travelled here plenty of times on that flight and nothing like
that has ever happened.

“I dread to think what could have happened to me.

“It ruined our Christmas.”

But Ryanair had no sympathy with John’s plight.

A spokesman said: “Ryanair flights were diverted due to the weather.
Passengers were fully advised of onward connections.”

At least when someone has a bad experience on the railway there's
usually some vestige of sympathy expressed regardless of whether the
TOC was or wasn't at fault. It's such a curt response that I can't
help wondering whether the newspaper reproduced a small piece of a
more fulsome response or didn't give the full story to the spokesman
in order to better fit the "Ryanair had no sympathy" assertion. There
again given Ryanair's reputation for abrasiveness perhaps not.




The problem is the public, not RyanAir. Unfortunately, the public has
become conditioned to lousy service in exchange for a cheap fare. That's
why even the majors are now charging for formerly included services -
checked baggage, food, even non-alcoholic drinks on some flights. Airlines
like Ryanair advertise cheap service so people will abandon the majors, even
when the fares are roughly comparable, because it isn't worth the extra 5
(insert here: Dollars, Euros, Pounds, other]. At least when air travel was
somewhat regulated, you got some value. Ryan doesn't offer a lot.

[Bob Myers]

Post by CJB
Meanwhile, John had been advised to get a bus to the city centre and
then to Prestwick.

Sounds like a reasonable suggestion, but...

Post by CJB
But the city bus he caught dropped him at a remote location and he
stood with his heavy suitcase in dark sub-zero conditions for over an
hour before he was able to catch another bus back to the airport.

Why would Ryanair be responsible for what the city bus did,
once the gentleman in question decided to take that option?

Bob M.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Jeff Hacker
The problem is the public, not RyanAir. Unfortunately, the public has
become conditioned to lousy service in exchange for a cheap fare.

The public has flocked to carriers offering a cheap fare.

Post by Jeff Hacker
That's why even the majors are now charging for formerly included
services - checked baggage, food, even non-alcoholic drinks on some
flights.

Evan an airline regarded as highly profitable makes only about £5 per
passenger per flight. So trimming the fat off can make a big difference
to the company.

Post by Jeff Hacker
Airlines like Ryanair advertise cheap service so people will abandon
the majors, even when the fares are roughly comparable, because it
isn't worth the extra 5 (insert here: Dollars, Euros, Pounds, other].

In the UK, mush of the attraction of the low-cost airlines is that they
fly literally hundreds of routes that the major airlines never operated.

Post by Jeff Hacker
At least when air travel was somewhat regulated, you got some value.
Ryan doesn't offer a lot.

The level of comfort, service and dealing-with-incidents is the same or
better than you'll find on the railways and buses. With the proviso that
airports are usually better places to hang out waiting for delays to
subside than a train or bus station.

Most of the problems arise from unfamiliarity, in this case with the bus
services in Edinburgh. He either got the wrong bus, or got off the bus
at the wrong place. The blame there lies with the bus company.

Some people will suggest that the airline should have laid on coaches to
Prestwick, but that's not easy at odd hours of the day and in bad
weather. And many of the passengers probably don't live near Prestwick
anyway [although this one did], and Edinburgh/Glasgow (frequent train
service between them) might actually be a preferred destination.

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by Roland Perry
Some people will suggest that the airline should have laid on coaches to
Prestwick.

Sounds a good idea, but probably a logistic nightmare. The aircrew may
well have no local knowledge and in any case need to turn the aircraft
around.
The airline may well have no employees at the airport, particularly if the
diversion is to an airport not normally used or to one they do. but not at
the time of diversion.
Arranging a bus alternative from Dublin would have some problems in
contacting a company that was happy to give a foreign company credit.
Also for which passengers? Many may well have preferred to make their own
arrangements as probably Prestwick was not their final destination.



Ryan Air have a duty of care, leaving the passengers in a warm safe place
like Edinburgh Airport probably discharged this responsibility.

I take a lot of Ryan Air flights and I just budget for one in ten costing
me £200 to sort out myself. Still cheaper than BA.

[tim....]

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by Roland Perry
Some people will suggest that the airline should have laid on coaches to
Prestwick.

Sounds a good idea, but probably a logistic nightmare.

This is the airline's problem (and a regulatory requirement)

Post by Buddenbrooks
The aircrew may well have no local knowledge and in any case need to turn
the aircraft around.

What has it got to do with aircrew?

It's a ground staff problem. If the airline have no representative at the
airport how did they get someone to handle the plane when it landed?

Post by Buddenbrooks
The airline may well have no employees at the airport, particularly if
the diversion is to an airport not normally used or to one they do. but
not at the time of diversion.

But they do have employees at the airport that the plane should have landed.
They ought to be able to arrange transit from there (the bus will have to
make a two way journey )

Post by Buddenbrooks
Ryan Air have a duty of care, leaving the passengers in a warm safe place
like Edinburgh Airport probably discharged this responsibility.

Not in the current regs it doesn't. Their responsibility ends when they get
them back to the "booked" airport. (but don't expect any Ryanair staff to
admit this.

Post by Buddenbrooks
I take a lot of Ryan Air flights and I just budget for one in ten costing
me £200 to sort out myself. Still cheaper than BA.

But if Ryan air sorted it for you it would cost 20 pounds

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....
This is the airline's problem (and a regulatory requirement)

It would appear not, as Ryan Air did not,

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
The aircrew may well have no local knowledge and in any case need to turn
the aircraft around.

What has it got to do with aircrew?

The only employees of Ryan Air at the airport.

Post by tim....
It's a ground staff problem. If the airline have no representative at the
airport how did they get someone to handle the plane when it landed?

Contractors.

Post by tim....
But they do have employees at the airport that the plane should have landed.

Contractors for specific tasks.

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
Ryan Air have a duty of care, leaving the passengers in a warm safe
place like Edinburgh Airport probably discharged this responsibility.

Not in the current regs it doesn't. Their responsibility ends when they
get them back to the "booked" airport. (but don't expect any Ryanair
staff to admit this.

Contractual responsibility and Duty of Care are different. Failure to meet
contract can see you sued in a civil court, failure for a duty of care can
see you in criminal court.

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
I take a lot of Ryan Air flights and I just budget for one in ten
costing me £200 to sort out myself. Still cheaper than BA.

But if Ryan air sorted it for you it would cost 20 pounds

I budget on the assumption they wont.

[tim....]

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....
This is the airline's problem (and a regulatory requirement)

It would appear not, as Ryan Air did not,

As is the norm for them. This doesn't mean that they are right

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
The aircrew may well have no local knowledge and in any case need to turn
the aircraft around.

What has it got to do with aircrew?

The only employees of Ryan Air at the airport.

Post by tim....
It's a ground staff problem. If the airline have no representative at
the airport how did they get someone to handle the plane when it landed?

Contractors.

so they get this contractor to arrange the bus.

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....
But they do have employees at the airport that the plane should have landed.

Contractors for specific tasks.

But this must include the capability of arranging buses. Usually the same
people who provide the staff for Ryanair at a remote airport provide the
staff for many other airlines.

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
Contractors for specific tasks.

But this must include the capability of arranging buses. Usually the same
people who provide the staff for Ryanair at a remote airport provide the
staff for many other airlines.

Exactly, they employ a contractor for specific tasks at specific times.
Other times they work for others and are not available.


Also the contractors have no executive power. When my flight out of Germany
was cancelled the service agent explained they could only re-book on the
next available flights.
Any other issues required the customer phoning a premium rate number to
Dublin.

[tim....]

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
Contractors for specific tasks.

But this must include the capability of arranging buses. Usually the
same people who provide the staff for Ryanair at a remote airport provide
the staff for many other airlines.

Exactly, they employ a contractor for specific tasks at specific times.
Other times they work for others and are not available.

Yes, so if they know that the regulations will require them to lay on a bus
if they should divert to that airport (which they do), they should contract
for that service

simples

tim

[Roland Perry]

Post by tim....
Yes, so if they know that the regulations will require them to lay on a bus
if they should divert to that airport (which they do), they should contract
for that service

The problem with that, is they might have to divert to any airport in
the country; depending on the nature of the problem. (And that's
ignoring diversions that might happen over Continental Europe).

And with scores of airlines having the same issue, it's a N^2 problem
that could probably only be solved by some kind of central clearing
system. The lack of such a system is what would need to be solved here,
not the lack of one contact between one random airline and one random
airport.

[tim....]

Post by tim....
Yes, so if they know that the regulations will require them to lay on a bus
if they should divert to that airport (which they do), they should contract
for that service

The problem with that, is they might have to divert to any airport in the
country; depending on the nature of the problem. (And that's ignoring
diversions that might happen over Continental Europe).

Yes that's why it's been made the task of the airline to sort out.

They are far better placed to "contract" someone to sort this out than 300
individuals are to do it for themselves.

I don't see why the fact that "it is hard" should be an excuse for one party
opting out when for the other party it is "even harder".

And with scores of airlines having the same issue, it's a N^2 problem that
could probably only be solved by some kind of central clearing system. The
lack of such a system is what would need to be solved here, not the lack of
one contact between one random airline and one random airport.

Given that the airline ought to know that they should provide this (bus)
service, the fact that they have themselves decided not to pre-establish a
cooperative system, is not an excuse

tim

[Roland Perry]

Post by tim....

The problem with that, is they might have to divert to any airport in the
country; depending on the nature of the problem. (And that's ignoring
diversions that might happen over Continental Europe).

Yes that's why it's been made the task of the airline to sort out.
They are far better placed to "contract" someone to sort this out than 300
individuals are to do it for themselves.

Actually, the individuals are much better placed to hail a taxi than the
airline is.

Post by tim....
I don't see why the fact that "it is hard" should be an excuse for one party
opting out when for the other party it is "even harder".

And with scores of airlines having the same issue, it's a N^2 problem that
could probably only be solved by some kind of central clearing system. The
lack of such a system is what would need to be solved here, not the lack of
one contact between one random airline and one random airport.

Given that the airline ought to know that they should provide this (bus)
service,

When they might get one plane diverted to that airport every five years?

Post by tim....
the fact that they have themselves decided not to pre-establish a
cooperative system, is not an excuse

While the system you desire is a wonderful gold-plated solution (that
passengers will pay for in the long run, obviously) the fact it doesn't
exist is evidence that there's no regulatory requirement for this
particular activity.

[Buddenbrooks]

the fact it doesn't

Post by Roland Perry
exist is evidence that there's no regulatory requirement for this
particular activity.
--

I once got diverted to Glasgow when I wanted to go to Reykjavik, they
didn't lay a bus on then either.

[tim....]

Post by Roland Perry
the fact it doesn't

Post by Roland Perry
exist is evidence that there's no regulatory requirement for this
particular activity.
--

I once got diverted to Glasgow when I wanted to go to Reykjavik, they
didn't lay a bus on then either.

but what did they do?

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry
the fact it doesn't

Post by Roland Perry
exist is evidence that there's no regulatory requirement for this
particular activity.
--

I once got diverted to Glasgow when I wanted to go to Reykjavik, they
didn't lay a bus on then either.

but what did they do?

Breakfast, 6 hour wait and a connecting flight.

[tim....]

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry
the fact it doesn't

Post by Roland Perry
exist is evidence that there's no regulatory requirement for this
particular activity.
--

I once got diverted to Glasgow when I wanted to go to Reykjavik, they
didn't lay a bus on then either.

but what did they do?

Breakfast, 6 hour wait and a connecting flight.

so they got you to your correct destination then

tim

[tim....]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim....

The problem with that, is they might have to divert to any airport in the
country; depending on the nature of the problem. (And that's ignoring
diversions that might happen over Continental Europe).

Yes that's why it's been made the task of the airline to sort out.
They are far better placed to "contract" someone to sort this out than 300
individuals are to do it for themselves.

Actually, the individuals are much better placed to hail a taxi than the
airline is.

OK, but at a very high cost. I was referring to doing it economically

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim....
I don't see why the fact that "it is hard" should be an excuse for one party
opting out when for the other party it is "even harder".

And with scores of airlines having the same issue, it's a N^2 problem that
could probably only be solved by some kind of central clearing system. The
lack of such a system is what would need to be solved here, not the lack of
one contact between one random airline and one random airport.

Given that the airline ought to know that they should provide this (bus)
service,

When they might get one plane diverted to that airport every five years?

When the are diverted they *have* to come to some arrangement with the
airport that they have landed at for some ground services. All I am doing
is adding an extra service to a list that already exists.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim....
the fact that they have themselves decided not to pre-establish a
cooperative system, is not an excuse

While the system you desire is a wonderful gold-plated solution (that

It was you that desired it

I was happy with an ah doc system, but you said that wouldn't work

tim

[Roland Perry]

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry
Actually, the individuals are much better placed to hail a taxi than the
airline is.

OK, but at a very high cost. I was referring to doing it economically

You think the airline will have negotiated special rates, all over
Europe?

Post by tim....
When the are diverted they *have* to come to some arrangement with the
airport that they have landed at for some ground services. All I am doing
is adding an extra service to a list that already exists.

Organising very occasional ground transportation is a bit of a departure
from regular aircraft handling operations.

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim....
the fact that they have themselves decided not to pre-establish a
cooperative system, is not an excuse

While the system you desire is a wonderful gold-plated solution (that

It was you that desired it
I was happy with an ah doc system, but you said that wouldn't work

You desired a system that would work - I suggested one that I think has
the best chance of working.

[tim....]

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry
Actually, the individuals are much better placed to hail a taxi than the
airline is.

OK, but at a very high cost. I was referring to doing it economically

You think the airline will have negotiated special rates, all over Europe?

No, but hiring one bus is cheaper than 50 taxis.

Even organising a taxi share is going to be cheaper,. This is something that
they do by routine in Scandinavia but never even considered in the UK.

Post by tim....
When the are diverted they *have* to come to some arrangement with the
airport that they have landed at for some ground services. All I am doing
is adding an extra service to a list that already exists.

Organising very occasional ground transportation is a bit of a departure
from regular aircraft handling operations.

Of course, but it is still going to be something that the ground staff at
the airport (that the plane has landed at) will be likely to have done
before.

tim

[Roland Perry]

Post by tim....

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry
Actually, the individuals are much better placed to hail a taxi than the
airline is.

OK, but at a very high cost. I was referring to doing it economically

You think the airline will have negotiated special rates, all over Europe?

No, but hiring one bus is cheaper than 50 taxis.

If there's a bus available for hire. They don't tend to be waiting
around for rental customers quite like taxis are.

Post by tim....
Even organising a taxi share is going to be cheaper,. This is something that
they do by routine in Scandinavia but never even considered in the UK.

I've seen it done at Paddington station.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modalpages/1144.aspx

Post by tim....

Post by tim....
When the are diverted they *have* to come to some arrangement with the
airport that they have landed at for some ground services. All I am doing
is adding an extra service to a list that already exists.

Organising very occasional ground transportation is a bit of a departure
from regular aircraft handling operations.

Of course, but it is still going to be something that the ground staff at
the airport (that the plane has landed at) will be likely to have done
before.

Which ground staff? Not the ones refuelling the plane.

[tim....]

Post by tim....

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry
Actually, the individuals are much better placed to hail a taxi than the
airline is.

OK, but at a very high cost. I was referring to doing it economically

You think the airline will have negotiated special rates, all over Europe?

No, but hiring one bus is cheaper than 50 taxis.

If there's a bus available for hire. They don't tend to be waiting around
for rental customers quite like taxis are.

Post by tim....
Even organising a taxi share is going to be cheaper,. This is something that
they do by routine in Scandinavia but never even considered in the UK.

I've seen it done at Paddington station.

I agree it gets done at stations.

I've never seen it done at an airport

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modalpages/1144.aspx

Post by tim....

Post by tim....
When the are diverted they *have* to come to some arrangement with the
airport that they have landed at for some ground services. All I am doing
is adding an extra service to a list that already exists.

Organising very occasional ground transportation is a bit of a departure
from regular aircraft handling operations.

Of course, but it is still going to be something that the ground staff at
the airport (that the plane has landed at) will be likely to have done
before.

Which ground staff? Not the ones refuelling the plane.

The ones who deal with passengers.

tim

[Roland Perry]

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim....
Of course, but it is still going to be something that the ground staff at
the airport (that the plane has landed at) will be likely to have done
before.

Which ground staff? Not the ones refuelling the plane.

The ones who deal with passengers.

Whenever I get back to East Midlands airport in the early evening the
flight crew always chant the bit about "if you need any help there are
ground crew available", but it's like the Marie Celeste. There's
sometimes one person guiding people to the next available immigration
desk, but apart from that, no-one (not even to complain to about lost
bags).

To get to the departures area you have to go outside, and back inside
again the other end of the building. Maybe there'd be some people there;
but I don't know where I'd look if the airline didn't normally fly from
there.

[pete]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim....
Of course, but it is still going to be something that the ground staff at
the airport (that the plane has landed at) will be likely to have done
before.

Which ground staff? Not the ones refuelling the plane.

The ones who deal with passengers.

Whenever I get back to East Midlands airport in the early evening the
flight crew always chant the bit about "if you need any help there are
ground crew available", but it's like the Marie Celeste.

You could try lighting up. I'd expect you'd be surrounded by armed bastards
(OK, maybe not the same thing) within seconds.

[tim....]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim....

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim....
Of course, but it is still going to be something that the ground staff at
the airport (that the plane has landed at) will be likely to have done
before.

Which ground staff? Not the ones refuelling the plane.

The ones who deal with passengers.

Whenever I get back to East Midlands airport in the early evening the
flight crew always chant the bit about "if you need any help there are
ground crew available", but it's like the Marie Celeste. There's sometimes
one person guiding people to the next available immigration desk, but
apart from that, no-one (not even to complain to about lost bags).

I still don't see that this is an excuse. If a plane has been diverted to
an airport it is not unreasonable to expect there to be staff able to deal
with the arriving passengers. If there aren't, then the airport shouldn't
accept the diversion.

tim

[Roland Perry]

If a plane has been diverted to an airport it is not unreasonable to
expect there to be staff able to deal with the arriving passengers. If
there aren't, then the airport shouldn't accept the diversion.

I agree. They should let the plane land in a field instead. Crash into
the field if the fuel runs out first.

[Neil Williams]

Post by Roland Perry
I agree. They should let the plane land in a field instead. Crash into
the field if the fuel runs out first.

Or even (if fuel is available) circle for ages.

For those who didn't travel to the airport by car, landing somewhere
vaguely nearby is likely to be a better option, even if the airline
don't sort anything out. For me, for instance, if I landed at any
South East or Midlands airport (so long as it wasn't 3am) it'd be
easier for me to get the train home and forget about it.

If you're in the air, that option doesn't exist.

Neil

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by Neil Williams
For me, for instance, if I landed at any
South East or Midlands airport (so long as it wasn't 3am) it'd be
easier for me to get the train home and forget about it.

Then you should pay less for your ticket as you will require less support
from the airline.

[tim....]

Post by Jeff Hacker
The problem is the public, not RyanAir. Unfortunately, the public has
become conditioned to lousy service in exchange for a cheap fare. That's
why even the majors are now charging for formerly included services -
checked baggage, food, even non-alcoholic drinks on some flights.

I don't see the connection (between unbundling extras and poor service)

Personally I resent having to pay for someone else's meals on a plane so
unbundling seems like a bloody good idea.

But it costs nothing for the staff to be polite

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....
But it costs nothing for the staff to be polite

It does, better staff demand better wages.

[Neil Williams]

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 17:19:22 -0000, "Buddenbrooks"

Post by Buddenbrooks
It does, better staff demand better wages.

OOI, does anyone know the difference between EZY and FR cabin crew
wages? The former's cabin crew are rarely anything other than polite,
cheerful and helpful (and normally give the impression they enjoy
their jobs), and on the rare occasion they're not I think it could
fairly be put down to a bad day. The latter are rather more variable.

EZY, of course, charge more than FR in general, I'd say, so I'd think
there would be a difference. But I wonder how great the wage
difference actually is.

Neil

[Sancho Panza]

http://www.ayrshirepost.net/ayrshire-news/local-news-ayrshire/ayr-new...
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yfxjokb
Ayrshire pensioner (88) suffers stroke after nightmare ordeal with
Ryanair
Jan 1 2010 by Lisa Boyle, Ayrshire Post (main ed)
AN 88-year-old man had a stroke after he was abandoned by an airline
more than 70 miles from his destination.
Frail John Lynskey was left dazed and confused when his Prestwick
bound flight was diverted to Edinburgh because of bad weather.
But rather than ensure the pensioner was cared for in the sub-zero
temperatures, he was simply told to get a bus, which dropped him off
in the middle of nowhere.
The shocking catalogue of events unfolded when John decided to spend
Christmas with his daughter in Coylton.
He was due to arrive at Prestwick at 6.50pm, on December 23 on the
Ryanair flight from Shannon.
His daughter Patricia Christie and grand-daughter Nicola were eagerly
awaiting his arrival when they heard that the flight had been
diverted.
Son-in-law Kenny said: “The next couple of hours were a blank for
them. They presumed that the passengers would be brought by bus to
Prestwick but John never showed up.
“Meanwhile I was phoning the airport and trying to phone Ryanair but
nobody was able to confirm what was happening. It was a nightmare.
“John doesn’t have a mobile and he didn’t have anyone’s mobile
numbers
on him so there was no way of him contacting us.”
Unable to contact him, John’s frantic family had to call in police
who
filed him as a missing person.
Meanwhile, John had been advised to get a bus to the city centre and
then to Prestwick.
But the city bus he caught dropped him at a remote location and he
stood with his heavy suitcase in dark sub-zero conditions for over an
hour before he was able to catch another bus back to the airport.
Kenny continued: “By 11pm we were in absolute panic mode. I phoned
Strathclyde police, who phoned their colleagues in Lothian and
Borders.
“By 1am, they found John sitting alone in the airport totally
helpless. He didn’t know what was happening.”
Savvy officers put John in a taxi to Coylton– at a cost of £167.
And when Patricia and Nicola arrived home at 3am they found a cold,
hungry and scared John waiting in the porch – more than seven hours
after he was due to arrive.
But the family nightmare wasn’t over.
Patricia explained: “I was so relieved to get dad inside. We got him
a
cup of tea and something to eat then went to bed.
“The next day I was rushing around making breakfast and noticed that
my dad was spilling his food all down his front. Then I realised the
left side of his face was drooped.
“I just rushed into the hospital with him and doctors said he’d had a
stroke brought on by the stress and cold.”
John, from Galway, is now recovering at Patricia’s home. He was
released from hospital late on Christmas day.
John said: “I’ve never been through anything like that in my life
before.
“We still don’t know if Ryanair ever put on a bus for passengers to
get to Prestwick.
“I’ve travelled here plenty of times on that flight and nothing like
that has ever happened.
“I dread to think what could have happened to me.
“It ruined our Christmas.”
But Ryanair had no sympathy with John’s plight.
A spokesman said: “Ryanair flights were diverted due to the weather.
Passengers were fully advised of onward connections.”
At least when someone has a bad experience on the railway there's
usually some vestige of sympathy expressed regardless of whether the
TOC was or wasn't at fault. It's such a curt response that I can't
help wondering whether the newspaper reproduced a small piece of a
more fulsome response or didn't give the full story to the spokesman
in order to better fit the "Ryanair had no sympathy" assertion. There
again given Ryanair's reputation for abrasiveness perhaps not.

easy...don't let people over 70 travel unaccompanied

[Mxsmanic]

You get what you pay for.

[tim....]

Post by Mxsmanic
You get what you pay for.

This is no excuse for ignoring statutory consumer rights

If it were we would still be able to buy lead paint, toys that broke into
bits that choked children etc etc etc.

If you sell a consumer product/service in a country, you can't pick and
choose which of the laws you obey

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....
If you sell a consumer product/service in a country, you can't pick and
choose which of the laws you obey

Presumably the tickets were bought in Scotland over the internet from
a company registered in Ireland.
So presumably one needs to look to the Dublin courts.

[tim....]

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....
If you sell a consumer product/service in a country, you can't pick and
choose which of the laws you obey

Presumably the tickets were bought in Scotland over the internet from
a company registered in Ireland.
So presumably one needs to look to the Dublin courts.

The rules are based upon an EU directive so the will be the same

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
So presumably one needs to look to the Dublin courts.

The rules are based upon an EU directive so the will be the same

But still a Dublin Court, a lot of bother for a small taxi fare.

[tim....]

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
So presumably one needs to look to the Dublin courts.

The rules are based upon an EU directive so the will be the same

But still a Dublin Court, a lot of bother for a small taxi fare.

You won't have to take action in a Dublin court.

You can complain to the court in the country where you live. This is what
happened when someone challenged (and eventually changed) the airline's
interpretation of "unforeseen circumstances".

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....
You can complain to the court in the country where you live.

There are limited areas where a British Court will accept a case where the
offence happened outside its direct jurisdiction.

If you look up cases where Ryan Air have been sued by their clients you
will find it occurred in a Dublin court even though the issue was for
flights not including
Ireland. If you Google suing Ryan Air and small claims you will find
references to how to do it.

You may or may no be right about an airlines responsibility, but Ryan Air
know that it is a lot of bother to sue them in a Dublin Court and that the
costs are
not worth it.

It really is a matter of you cannot expect more than you pay for, and Ryan
Air does not have a budget to cover additional unforeseen expenses.
He does not employ staff where he can avoid it, so there is really an
available 'Ryan Air' employee outside of the aircraft. Which by the time you
have cleared immigration have left the airport to the next destination.

In the particular case stated there was a safe and available method of
getting to the final destination. Ryan Air appears to have done all that was
needed to get the passengers to the final destination. I am not sure if it
was stated who would pay the bus fare, but reclaiming this could be done
after the event by post.

I did not see any reference to other passengers having a problem, so it
might be worth knowing how self sufficient the gentleman was. If he was
dependent on others to get him to and from the airport then those people
should have considered what would happen if things went wrong.


Ryan Air has a known business model, you know how he behaves. Vote with your
feet. People got about before he appeared and although he flies lots of
routes not serviced by others
they are accessible by road and rail from airports that are.

I may need to get to Brest in a couple of weeks. The only UK route is with
Ryan Air, BMI being Summer only. Part of the reason he can offer this
service is he can survive on a narrower
profit margin. Add costs and the link will disappear.

In fact I may go via Paris with a different airline because my colleague
does not want to travel on the day the route operates, but at least there is
an option.

My gut feeling is that airlines should sort things out, but when I am more
pragmatic I accept that with low costs comes minimum service.

[tim....]

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....
You can complain to the court in the country where you live.

There are limited areas where a British Court will accept a case where
the offence happened outside its direct jurisdiction.
If you look up cases where Ryan Air have been sued by their clients you
will find it occurred in a Dublin court even though the issue was for
flights not including
Ireland.

Rubbish (to the suggestion that you *have* to do this)

There are multiple cases of Ryanair being sued in the UK courts using UK
law, the one about wheelchairs for example.

Post by Buddenbrooks
If you Google suing Ryan Air and small claims you will find references to
how to do it.
You may or may no be right about an airlines responsibility, but Ryan Air
know that it is a lot of bother to sue them in a Dublin Court and that the
costs are
not worth it.
It really is a matter of you cannot expect more than you pay for,

I don't agree. Whatever price I pay I am entitled to expect the company to
comply with my statutory rights, after that point your comment is valid, but
not before. As per my previous example - I can't sell unsafe toys in the EU
on the basis that "you get what you pay for", why should plane tickets be
any different?

Post by Buddenbrooks
and Ryan Air does not have a budget to cover additional unforeseen
expenses.

that's its problem, not mine

Post by Buddenbrooks
He does not employ staff where he can avoid it, so there is really an
available 'Ryan Air' employee outside of the aircraft. Which by the time
you have cleared immigration have left the airport to the next
destination.
In the particular case stated there was a safe and available method of
getting to the final destination.

It demonstrably wasn't "safe".

Post by Buddenbrooks
Ryan Air appears to have done all that was needed to get the passengers to
the final destination.

They appear to have done nothing except say "there's a local bus over there
go and catch it. Arguably this isn't enough. (but I thought that we had
moved onto the general rule, rather than this specific case.)

Post by Buddenbrooks
I am not sure if it was stated who would pay the bus fare, but reclaiming
this could be done after the event by post.

Evidence suggests that you won't get any money out of Ryanair after the
event without winning in court.

Post by Buddenbrooks
I did not see any reference to other passengers having a problem,

Because the other passengers didn't complain loudly enough .

Come on , you know (or ought to) that this is exactly how it works. When a
company does something which you think is wrong you may make a lot of noise
at the time but ultimately most people never follow it up. Only a very few
will make it through to a "national" complaint, this doesn't mean that they
were the only person who thought that what the company did was wrong. The
rest just though it was more effort than it was worth to complain further.

Post by Buddenbrooks
so it might be worth knowing how self sufficient the gentleman was. If he
was dependent on others to get him to and from the airport then those
people should have considered what would happen if things went wrong.
Ryan Air has a known business model, you know how he behaves.

I do. I don't think that he should be allowed to do so (and so does the
law. Unfortunately the penalties aren't sever enough to encourage him to
comply).

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....
There are multiple cases of Ryanair being sued in the UK courts using UK
law, the one about wheelchairs for example.

Your ticket is bought from an Irish registered company. If the contract
was under Irish law then it
is to an Irish court you go to sort it.

The disability act is UK law and applied to any act within the UK.

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
and Ryan Air does not have a budget to cover additional unforeseen
expenses.

that's its problem, not mine

In as far as they dont have a budget, so you wont get anything.
If you consult your solicitor he will advise you of two things before
going to court.
1, Do you have a case?
2, If you win will the other side pay up?

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
He does not employ staff where he can avoid it, so there is really an
available 'Ryan Air' employee outside of the aircraft. Which by the time
you have cleared immigration have left the airport to the next
destination.
In the particular case stated there was a safe and available method of
getting to the final destination.

It demonstrably wasn't "safe".

Of course getting a bus was safe. The bus to Edinburgh is 3 times an
hour, is very clearly marked at the exit and drops off by the central train
station off Princess Street.

Post by tim....
They appear to have done nothing except say "there's a local bus over
there go and catch it. Arguably this isn't enough.

What else? They could not fly there and the guy was entitled to a free bus
pass.

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
Ryan Air has a known business model, you know how he behaves.

I do. I don't think that he should be allowed to do so (and so does the
law. Unfortunately the penalties aren't sever enough to encourage him to
comply).

He appears to have done what was required. The diversion was ourside Ryan
Airs control and a number of passengers ended up at Edinburgh.
The flight had originated in Scotland so it was reasonable to assume that
all passengers were familiur with Scotland. There was somewhere warm and
safe to go in the airport itself.
The quickest way of getting to the final destination was by public
transport which was available. It would have taken longer to locate and
contract a bus company to take people back to Prestwich, and many passengers
may not have wanted to go there. The staff had advised him of the most
suitable method. Ryan Air have a customer service number he could have
called.

In this particular case it would appear that the gentleman was not capable
of unescorted travel. Maybe he was escorted to the departure lounge and
expected to be picked up at
at arrivals. When this failed he could not cope. I am not sure one can
expect an airline to be care assistance workers.

[tim....]

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....
There are multiple cases of Ryanair being sued in the UK courts using UK
law, the one about wheelchairs for example.

Your ticket is bought from an Irish registered company. If the contract
was under Irish law then it
is to an Irish court you go to sort it.
The disability act is UK law and applied to any act within the UK.

Post by tim....

Post by Buddenbrooks
and Ryan Air does not have a budget to cover additional unforeseen
expenses.

that's its problem, not mine

In as far as they dont have a budget, so you wont get anything.

No no no. It's their problem to comply with the law.

Deciding not to have a budget is NOT complying

Perhaps I could decide that my company doesn't have a budget to pay my
employee's NI, and thus have a valid excuse not to pay any

Post by Buddenbrooks
If you consult your solicitor he will advise you of two things before
going to court.
1, Do you have a case?
2, If you win will the other side pay up?

You don't need to go to court. There are bodies who will pursue this issue
for you.

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....
You don't need to go to court. There are bodies who will pursue this
issue for you.

Then there is no problem then, what's the fuss about?

[tim....]

Post by Buddenbrooks

Post by tim....
You don't need to go to court. There are bodies who will pursue this
issue for you.

Then there is no problem then, what's the fuss about?

The fuss is about the various claims here that the airline don't need to
provide the service at all.

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....
The fuss is about the various claims here that the airline don't need to
provide the service at all.

I think we are discussing if Ryan Air had done all that we could expect or
not.

I note from looking at the departure board from Bristol Airport during the
worst of the weather down here that
Ryan kept meeting schedule while Easy Jet had a lot of cancellations.

So it would appear that RA are good at getting you there but bad at those
times it fails.

Easy Jet are better at looking after passengers when things go wrong.

So make your choice.

[Neil Williams]

On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 11:24:09 -0000, "tim...."

Post by tim....
It demonstrably wasn't "safe".

For him. Perhaps, then, he wasn't capable of travelling on his own?
Such a situation could easily have arisen with another airline - no
airline has enough staff to give one to one escorting for passengers
unless (in a few cases[1]) arranged in advance. Or even when
travelling by rail - usually, things are better, but if (as happened
to me once[2]) your train "fails" (brake failure of some sort which
required passengers to be removed but allowed the train to continue to
a depot) in the middle of nowhere, there's not always help at hand.

Post by tim....
They appear to have done nothing except say "there's a local bus over there
go and catch it. Arguably this isn't enough.

If it would get a reasonable passenger where they were going (by, for
instance, asking the bus driver or another passenger to tell them
where to get off), and Ryanair paid for it (not clear in this case,
admittedly), isn't it?

[1] Unaccompanied child services, for instance, which are not offered
by Ryanair. We don't know for certain the state of mind of this
gentleman, but if (given his age) it was perhaps equivalent to a
child, he possibly shouldn't have travelled without some sort of
escort. Because, unlike children, it's not obvious to the naked eye
which elderly people may fit that description, it's down to them and
their families to ensure proper arrangements are made.

[2] Some sort of brake failure at Harlech on the Cambrian Coast line,
which is unstaffed. Buses were to be arranged, but it took a bit of
negotiation between passengers and Arriva Trains Wales control at
Machynlleth (whose number the guard was kind enough to give out before
disappearing with the train) before they were co-ordinated such that
everyone got where they were going.

Neil

[Mxsmanic]

Post by tim....
This is no excuse for ignoring statutory consumer rights

Which statutory rights were ignored?

Post by tim....
If you sell a consumer product/service in a country, you can't pick and
choose which of the laws you obey

Which laws were broken?

[JohnT]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by tim....
This is no excuse for ignoring statutory consumer rights

Which statutory rights were ignored?

Post by tim....
If you sell a consumer product/service in a country, you can't pick and
choose which of the laws you obey

Which laws were broken?

Start here:

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by JohnT

Post by Mxsmanic
Which laws were broken?

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/

Since he bought his ticket with an Irish Airline operating out of Dublin,
what has uk statute law got to do with it?

[Mxsmanic]

Post by JohnT
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/

Cite the specific law(s) violated.

[JohnT]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by JohnT
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/

Cite the specific law(s) violated.

If you wish me to give you Legal advice then I must insist on a
mmonetary deposit from you as evidence of good faith. I suggest that EUR
€1000 is an appropriate initial sum.

[Mxsmanic]

Post by JohnT
If you wish me to give you Legal advice then I must insist on a
mmonetary deposit from you as evidence of good faith. I suggest that EUR
€1000 is an appropriate initial sum.

If you wish me to believe what you say, you're going to have to be a lot more
specific than just a pointer to a Web site.

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by JohnT
If you wish me to give you Legal advice then I must insist on a
mmonetary deposit from you as evidence of good faith. I suggest that EUR
€1000 is an appropriate initial sum.

If you wish me to believe what you say, you're going to have to be a lot more
specific than just a pointer to a Web site.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0214/1233867937240.html

Note that this case is to be held in a Dublin Court, since the (Dutch)
passengers had a contract with an Irish company.
It also refers that it could be referred to the EU court.

Other cases where Ryan Air have been sued outside of Ireland is for a
specific act in a foreign country, not connected to flights.

[JohnT]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by JohnT
If you wish me to give you Legal advice then I must insist on a
mmonetary deposit from you as evidence of good faith. I suggest that EUR
¤1000 is an appropriate initial sum.

If you wish me to believe what you say, you're going to have to be a lot more
specific than just a pointer to a Web site.

It is a matter of total indifference to me whether or not you believe
anything.

[tim....]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by tim....
This is no excuse for ignoring statutory consumer rights

Which statutory rights were ignored?

Post by tim....
If you sell a consumer product/service in a country, you can't pick and
choose which of the laws you obey

Which laws were broken?

It's in the same EU directive that mandated compensation for
cancelled/delayed flights

It says that if a plane is diverted, the airline is responsible for getting
the pax to the booked destination

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

Post by tim....
It's in the same EU directive that mandated compensation for
cancelled/delayed flights

Which specifically excludes events outside the control of the airline.

[Mxsmanic]

Post by tim....
It's in the same EU directive that mandated compensation for
cancelled/delayed flights

Which directive is that?

Post by tim....
It says that if a plane is diverted, the airline is responsible for getting
the pax to the booked destination

Which directive is that?

[tim....]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by tim....
It's in the same EU directive that mandated compensation for
cancelled/delayed flights

Which directive is that?

Post by tim....
It says that if a plane is diverted, the airline is responsible for getting
the pax to the booked destination

Which directive is that?

look it up yourself you lazy so and so

tim

[Mxsmanic]

Post by tim....
look it up yourself you lazy so and so

So it doesn't exist. I thought so.

[Roger Chung-Wee]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by tim....
look it up yourself you lazy so and so

So it doesn't exist. I thought so.

Ryanair's general terms of carriage state:

====================================================
9.3 DIVERSIONS

If, for reasons outside our control, we are unable to land at the
airfield at your destination and are diverted so as to land at another
airfield then the carriage by air shall, unless the aircraft
continues to the original destination, be deemed to be completed when
the aircraft arrives at that other airfield. We shall, however,
arrange or designate alternative transportation, whether
by our own services or by other means of transportation
specified by us to carry you to the original destination as set
out in your Ticket without additional cost.
====================================================

It seems as if Ryanair discharged its responsibilities by arranging
for passengers to get onto a bus to the city centre and then onto
Prestwick, but he boarded the wrong one (or got off at the wrong
stop). You can't blame Ryanair for that. Nor can you blame Ryanair for
the failure of his daughter to give him her mobile or home phone
number. It would then have been easy for him to make a phone call
along the lines of: "We've been diverted to Edinburgh airport, can you
pick me up."

[tim....]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by tim....
look it up yourself you lazy so and so

So it doesn't exist. I thought so.

Something which is undoubtedly not legally valid.

It is common practice for companies (many with a with a far better
reputation than Ryanair) to litter their T&Cs with clauses that are legally
invalid, in the hope that they will be able to fob customers off if there is
a problem.

tim

[tim....]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by tim....
look it up yourself you lazy so and so

So it doesn't exist. I thought so.

you being too lazy to look it up doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, which
it most definitely does

Tim